Talk:List of Power Levels (Dragon Ball SA)
Where does it say that bit about Ascended Super Saiyan? Didn't see it in the article. -KidVegeta }} That seems to me to be only speculation. Unless officially stated (like the normal 1,2,3 levels) I think that should be left out. -KidVegeta Well, it's stated that SS2 is twice SS1 (in the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide, but I don't know how "official" that is). Ascended isn't stronger than SS2. -KidVegeta Sorry for not responding earlier, I will go w/ my previous multiplier. And no. You can't get 20X Strength from a SSJ2. In order for that to happen, you'd have to perform a Kaio-ken X20. Ball SA}} NomadMusikBall KP}} Alt. Account 21:31, November 19, 2010 (UTC) Actually, NM for power calculation. Well, what you have here (directed at HZ) is Vegeta's word vs canon stated fact. Vegeta is well known for his bluffs. -KidVegeta Mmm, a good case... but you're wrong. SS2 is clearly stated to be 2x SS1. I don't make the rules, but that's what they are. -KidVegeta From the canon wiki "The Super Saiyan 2 form is twice as strong as a regular Super Saiyan, according to the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume, pages 62-63. " -KidVegeta i believe that it is incorrect because you can't go from not even close to tanding a chance t killing them with no effort with only a double power 01:52, November 20, 2010 (UTC) These are by no means real numbers... but let's say cell's power was 150, and super saiyan 1 was 100. That would make SS2 be 200, easily outclassing 150. -KidVegeta no it would not be strong enough to toy with them 01:59, November 20, 2010 (UTC) I disagree, so long as you are more than a tiny bit stronger than your opponent, toying with them is not so hard. -KidVegeta ss2 multiplier 2 is not enough to toy around with someone you were previously getting owned by 02:01, November 20, 2010 (UTC)Aka. Ultimatesupersaiyanvegito The canon wiki also says that SS2 is twice SS1. And that is fact. The triple, is based of a quote that Vegeta himself said. And it's speculation to say that Vegeta was right in his assumption (we don't know either way). And I don't think Ascended SS1 is more powerful, ki or physical strength wise, than SS2. Cell was not incredibly stronger than Goku, when the two fought. Goku used up a good deal of his energy early on, though, making him forfeit. You'll notice that Gohan had no trouble with Cell (in SS2) afterwards, until Cell botched his self destruct. There, Cell became near even with Gohan, who only beat him in a beam struggle thereafter. I can't give you an exact number, though because Goku was obviously stronger in SS1 than Vegeta in Ascended SS. -KidVegeta You can't dismiss a canon source, because it's the only one. You can however dismiss a source, when the source is questionable (such as Vegeta, who has, before, lied about his power). -KidVegeta Well, we have a canon source that says SS2 is twice SS1. The only inconsistency is that Ascended SS is supposedly 3x SS. This is impossible, as SS2, in action, was clearly stronger than Ascended SS. So, we come to the conclusion that Vegeta could have been bluffing here, similar to his stunt with android 19. Or maybe he was just deluded. That happens a lot with how he reads power, throughout the series. -KidVegeta and it would be hard to win a battle when previously you were getting owned by someone who wasn't even trying and then you don't try and own them 02:20, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Yes it would. That kind of turn around would need a rapid strength increase... around 2x your previous strength. -KidVegeta no you would need atleast 3 maybe even 4 times your strength 02:23, November 20, 2010 (UTC) When you assume many things (many incorrect things, actually), you can produce just about any number. Fun stuff, though. -KidVegeta I read your posts. But you assume a lot of things. And I disagree with a lot of them. Such as going against canon fact. You can't argue with canon fact. No matter how logical it may seem, because let's face it, you (nor I) have all the facts to make such assumptions. -KidVegeta i agree with HZ 02:46, November 20, 2010 (UTC) I'm surprised you think that. There isn't a debate here, because we're not really discussing speculation. Things have been stated, and I can see why you would have a hard time accepting them. SS2 is 2x SS1. There is no speculation there. To say otherwise, is simply misstating factual evidence. To continue down this road of "I'm right, you're wrong" will get us nowhere. I know what's true. You want to bring your own understanding into it (and thus polluting canon fact with rampant speculation). Because, really, the truth is universal, and in this case, not open to interpretation. Of course, if you have more to say, I'll surely respond. -KidVegeta You recognize SS3 as being 4x SS2, but that comparison was given in the same place as SS2 being 2x SS1. Your argument loses the little amount of substance that it had when you aren't even being consistent. For the record, here's the link if you remain unconvinced: http://www.kanzentai.com/bp.php?id=guide SS3 is only ever mentioned once, in the same place where 2 is confirmed to be twice 1. For reference, that link came from the canon SS3 page, under reference of SS3's 4x power origin. -KidVegeta I'll have no part of the arguement. Just watchin' the show... Ball SA}} NomadMusikBall KP}} Alt. Account 16:57, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Same here. 17:00, November 20, 2010 (UTC) You know, the SS3 being 4x SS2 is from the super exciting guide, from the link above, right? The same place SS2 is said to be twice SS1? That's where the canon wiki linked their sources. You can't just recognize one, without recognizing the other. -KidVegeta the thing is DBz has so many flaws in the story so we will never know 19:51, November 20, 2010 (UTC) I don't get it. Honestly, I don't. Facts have been stated by me. Hyper just wants SS2 to be more than it is, because to him, it should be. Only it's not. Only, canon-wise, it is specifically said to be twice as strong as the previous level. There's no interpretation here, like there is with SS4 because, here, everything was made quite clear, by the super exciting guide. Once again, that guide is where the canon wiki says that SS3 is 4x SS2. That super exciting guide. That guide also says that SS2 is 2x SS1. I don't know why hyper's being so inconsistent and only recognizing the SS3 power. -KidVegeta well the X2 could be of the full power super saiyan which is well over the acsended super saiyan so does that sound like it could be true? 20:03, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Link posted above, man. Read it. SS2, not ascended/ultra/full power. -KidVegeta ok heres how it goes super saiyan x2 = ascended super saiyan full power super saiyan = ultra super saiyan full power super saiyan x2 = super saiyan 2 20:19, November 20, 2010 (UTC) No, I would say super saiyan 2 is stronger than all those. Much stronger, because all the others were used on cell, and none could beat him. It's also a point, that why would there be so many levels, if they're all just equal anyway? -KidVegeta ok your not getting what im saying full power super saiyan is much stronger than ascended super saiyan which is way beyond super saiyan which would make full power super saiyan times 2 be more plausable to be the super saiyan X2 = super saiyan 2 20:29, November 20, 2010 (UTC) When I've been saying x2, that means twice as in SS2 is twice SS1's power. -KidVegeta. and what im saying is super saiyan 2 is twice full power super saiyans power 20:41, November 20, 2010 (UTC) That's an interesting thought. I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. -KidVegeta the reason i say that is full power gohan could probably hold his own against cell but didn't believe in himself enough so when he was full power super saiyan he went up times 2 and got enough power to beat him 20:46, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Possibly. Goku (at full powered SS) vs Cell was even, until Goku used up all his energy, and seeing as Gohan was stronger than Goku, it might be true. -KidVegeta That's a very interesting theory! I think I can back it up too! See, a SSJ can be easily overcome by anger and the Saiyan heart can become overactive. In FPSSJ, they can overcome these urges. Although, this is contradicting, as SSJ2 is either anger-filled, sadistic, or both. But this could also mean that SSJ3 is 3X the power of FPSSJ. Ball SA}} NomadMusikBall KP}} Alt. Account 21:19, November 20, 2010 (UTC) glad i could "help" explain better maybe what it meant 21:49, November 20, 2010 (UTC) it is the only reason i could find plausable that ascended super saiyan is twice of super saiyan and so is super saiyan 2 21:57, November 20, 2010 (UTC) To me, I follow all the canon stated stuff to make my story fit into the canon. Canon wise, it is fact that SS2 is twice the power of SS1. However, FPSS is also, technically SS1. The writers who made that comparison, could have been refering to FPSS in that instance, but we'll never truly know. I'm going to go with full powered SS being what they mentioned here, so that SS22 is twice as strong as that. The only immediate problem I see is that there is no mention of how much stronger FFSS is over regular SS. Anybody know? -KidVegeta well it is atleast more powerful than ascended super saiyan and probably as strong if not stonger than ultra super saiyan 22:08, November 20, 2010 (UTC) If I remember correctly, ultra SS was strong enough to beat Cell, but couldn't because it was too slow. My memory of that bit is a bit hazy... was Trunks versing semi-perfect or perfect cell, as an ultra? -KidVegeta well cell was kinda toying with trunks 22:18, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Ps he was perfect it would make snese 22:23, November 20, 2010 (UTC)